One of the major benefits of opting for Kerdi Board over cement board is the ease of installation. We were using a 3/16 x 5/32 trowel, probably to small. RedGard On Hardibacker Board. I agree that gypsum seems very questionable anywhere in the wet areas of a shower. Step 3: Apply Thinset. To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers. It's still applied to cement board. #2. Wedi Board vs Cement Board vs Kerdi Board - The Ultimate Home Living Blog The fastest method [for me and possibly other dilettants] is to stroke the knife at a diagonal to the comb marks, top down, center out, pushing all the air before you with short, overlapping strokes.-Thinset needs to be pretty darn wet: Needs to stay put when combed, but should be soft and shiney. Make sure the floor is level in the shower. However if installed on drywall it is only protecting one side. if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[250,250],'remodelormove_com-narrow-sky-1','ezslot_27',168,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-narrow-sky-1-0');if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[250,250],'remodelormove_com-narrow-sky-1','ezslot_28',168,'0','1'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-narrow-sky-1-0_1');.narrow-sky-1-multi-168{border:none!important;display:block!important;float:none!important;line-height:0;margin-bottom:15px!important;margin-left:auto!important;margin-right:auto!important;margin-top:15px!important;max-width:100%!important;min-height:250px;min-width:250px;padding:0;text-align:center!important}Waterproofing should also be done on other areas in the shower as well such as the corners, window sills and other areas where water can easily accumulate. Without an underlayment, even the slightest movement of the subfloor can result in cracking of the tile and crumbling of the grout lines. The cement board needs to be clean, free of debris, and dry. Additionally, the use of modified thinset with KERDI could lead to cracks and other issues down the line as the modified thinset can shrink and pull away from the KERDI membrane over time. Can you remove tile from Kerdi membrane? The shower is ready for tile. Cement board is particularly vulnerable to water damage, so waterproofing can help protect it and help it last longer. Cementboard sufficient to a tub surround is dirt cheap .vs. First, you would waterproof with your favorite liquid waterproofing membrane of . Using modified thinset on KERDI can be tricky and in some cases, it can cause issues. The product involves an extruded polystyrene foam panel, with specialized reinforcement materials on both sides. Thinset with a latex acrylic modifier is best for interior projects, but if youre installing outdoors, you should use thinset with a polymer modified (PM) compound for greater moisture resistance. There is a product called Kerdiboard you might want to look into. Sheets of glass mat gypsum are made from water-resistant silicone-treated gypsum, reinforced on both sides by fiberglass mats. Can you put Kerdi membrane over plywood? - KnowledgeBurrow.com Will use the Schluter Shower system. You peeled it off? Most cement-based thin-set mortars are suitable; however, it is important to check the manufacturers instructions to ensure that the product is approved for use with Schluter systems. When installing Schluter Kerdi Membrane over cement backerboard: Should I use Alkali Resistant Mesh Tape and thinset on the seams of the backer board (for long term durability to prevent each board moving independently thus preventing cracking) prior to installing the Kerdi membrane. Modified vs. Unmodified Mortar With Kerdi Membranes Best substrate for kerdi membrane - nsbu.treviso-aug.it I'm guessing he put a 2x6 across for the curb? Yes, Schluter membranes can go over cement board. It is important to waterproof Hardie board to make it more water-resistant, as well as to protect the materials from the elements. Need help liner vs liquid membrane question. Cut the shower tray to size. To prevent those movements from transferring to the tile floor, consider installing an uncoupling membrane between the concrete and tile surfaces. Finally, it is important to remember that any thin-set that has been exposed to moisture must be replaced. Thanks Paul! Moisture resistant can cause similar problems, and there is absolutely no advantage to it. When doing so, it is important to ensure that the drywall surface is clean and free of dust, grease, and loose paint. This will help protect the cement board from water damage, and is often a specific type of coating designed for use with cement boards. You provide the pitch during the tile set. document.getElementById("ak_js_1").setAttribute("value",(new Date()).getTime()); Your email address will not be published. My understanding is that Schluter-Kerdi, being a sheet topical membrane, recommends just going with regular drywall instead of cement board but you can certainly use cement board as the substrate. Should I use Kerdi membrane or cement backerboard? With that said, the key benefits of Kerdi Board include: While cement board may be the most common and widely-known tile substrate, Kerdi Board is giving it a run for its money. I'm thirsty. What can a lawyer do if the client wants him to be acquitted of everything despite serious evidence? Schluter SET, ALL-SET, FAST-SET or an unmodified thin-set mortar must be used to construct all KERDI seams to ensure watertightperformance of the system. It is easier to cut than cement board, it is mold resistant, and it has a built-in moisture barrier. You are wise to use a cement board. KERDI BOARD: Waterproof Your Shower in 1 Day - Home Repair Tutor Kerdi Board panels have a number of other advantages: they can be cut to size using an ordinary utility knife, can be glued or screwed into place, and are very lightweight. How to prep a shower for tile with Schluter Kerdi - TwoFeetFirst It fell right off? If you want to go to the extra effort of putting the membrane over drywall, there is no need to use greenboard. Kerdi-Board panels allow the installer to prepare and create a broad range . Install an Uncoupling Membrane Between Concrete and Tile. Seems like I've been using the full measure of water the bag calls for, plus about 10%.-50 lbs of thinset at a time is too much for an amatuer. Greenboard is the same as regular drywall. New England. After installing your mud bed, make sure it is fully cured before applying Aquadefense. Do you have any pictures? Bulk update symbol size units from mm to map units in rule-based symbology. Like cement board, the boards are heavy and hard to cut. Hardie board is a cement-based siding product that is water-resistant, but not waterproof. Install the drain adapter, if needed. En cliquant sur Accepter , j'accepte l'utilisation des cookies telle qu'elle est dcrite plus en dtail dans la Politique d'Utilisation des Cookies de Houzz. This is confusing since Kerdi Board has no Kerdi on it. Schulter Ditra is manufactured by Schluter Systems and is a 1/8 thick polyethylene uncoupling membrane that is specifically designed for tile installations. I also used the Kerdi drain. Also - use a good thinset. Porcelain and ceramic tiles are stiff and hard materials, so if they are installed on an unlevel or bouncy surface they are highly susceptible to cracking. A place where magic is studied and practiced? Is it Sinful to put Kerdi over Hardi-backer? - Houzz You still use metal lath, but then mix bags of powder and pour the soupy mix onto the floor. . But I did want to understand the cost breakdown as the walls then become WAY more expensive than it would be with Redguard. Builder saying he doesn't want to put my trim tile in here. Additionally, all seams should be sealed with Kerdi Fix and covered with fleece. It allows you to easily and quickly create tile-ready elements in bathtub surrounds and platforms, vanities, showers, shelving, and much more. Here are the fundamentals of tile installation over cement board. there should be a small gap between the backer board and the tub. See the foam bench and the corners. . All shower/tub areas should have concrete board (I prefer hardiboard). You'll know the RG is dry when it turns reallllly dark bright red as opposed to the pinkish color when applied. Step 4: Place the Tile. Kerdi, a waterproofing membrane made of a special polyethylene fabric, should be allowed to completely dry prior to tiling. BTW the older Kerdi thread referencedwas excellent. A complete schluter shower kit is like $700-$900 depending on the size - this includes the pitched foam shower pan. You have to seal every little hole in the floor so the underlayment doesnt seep into spaces below. Additionally, all thin-set mortars should be suitable for use in wet or feature depths of up to 1/8 inch. Regardless, cement board is a great, trusted tile substrate that will work well on both walls and floors. Manufactured by Schluter Systems, Kerdi Board is a multifunctional tile underlayment and construction panel, that can also be implemented for forming bonded waterproof assemblies with tile coverings. About an argument in Famine, Affluence and Morality, Acidity of alcohols and basicity of amines. link to How To Organize A Bathroom Closet. So long as the seams and joint areas are properly prepared, the panels can also provide waterproofing. ), Schluter SET, ALL-SET, FAST-SET or an unmodified thin-set mortar is recommended. Fixing that is not that easy though. We think it is the cement board (Durock) sucking the moisture out of the unmodified thinset. Depending on your project and the specific cement board you are using, you will want to select a thinset appropriate for both.if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[468,60],'remodelormove_com-large-leaderboard-2','ezslot_15',158,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-large-leaderboard-2-0'); The two primary criteria to help guide your selection are the type of cement board you are using and whether you are installing it indoors or outdoors. The Ditra uncoupling design is lightweight, durable, and minimizes the possibility of cracked tile and grout. Kerdi Membrane Over Plywood ThePlywood.com Kerdi membrane is a waterproofing material that is designed to be used in wet areas such as bathrooms and showers before tiles are installed. I have to redo my tub surround due to moisture leaks and failing grout. With so many different types of underlayment to choose from, it can be hard to decide which is best for your project. How can I find out which sectors are used by files on NTFS? Keep in mind, that, just to be safe, most professionals choose to install a waterproofing membrane on top of the cement board when installing in wet locations like tub surrounds or showers. And we are using a drippy mixture, it slides off the trowel. Even the tiling subs have moved away from mortar walls because of the labor cost and lack of craftsmen in the industry. No, that doesn't sound right. Let's start! This allows the cement to properly hydrate, resulting in a strong, dense bond coat. Kerdi 3 ft. 3 in. x 48 in. Cement board is a heavy mess compared to drywall, and drywall is a heavy mess compared to Kerdi Board. Significantly more time and effort is required to ensure a quality bond when using a modified thinset adhesive with KERDI, and for this reason, it is usually not recommended. A quality underlayment will also serve as a waterproof barrier between the subfloor and the tile surface. The Kerdi-Line prefab pans and drains make me feel way more comfortable with the waterproofing. The Schlter system tends to be more durable than a cement board, but it also depends on the particular application and the weather. HardieBacker with Hydrodefense instead of Kerdi Board? : r/DIY - reddit An additional layer of sealant can also be applied on the seams for extra protection and water resistance. It installs with screws, then you tape the joints & screw holes and install your tile. This will prevent water from entering from behind the membrane, and will provide a more secure waterproof layer. Such membranes typically come in a brush or a roller form and can help create a durable barrier against water infiltration. One of the major benefits of opting for Kerdi Board over cement board is the ease of installation. If you are looking for a way to minimize height buildup and eliminate a large level difference at thresholds, a mat product is a good solution. To get the most protection from the cement board, it should be installed in a way that ensures it is waterproof, in addition to being secured properly with the right adhesive and screws. Additionally, the drywall should be primed with a latex primer before applying the Kerdi membrane. If there is no blocking behind the seam, i would just tape prior to installing the membrane, the thinset will fill the seam and embed the mesh. How do I align things in the following tabular environment? For indoor projects and gypsum board, thinset with a latex acrylic modifier is ideal. I trust it and have never had a callback. This will include installing its components, such as drain plate and drain collar, as well as Kerdi Band for further protection of seams and corners. Yes, it is recommended to waterproof cement board, especially if it is going to be used in exterior settings or in places where it will be in contact with water. This will help to extend its lifespan and make sure it looks its best for years to come. RedGard, on the other hand, is a liquid waterproofing membrane made by Custom Building Products. It is also essential that cement board joints and fasteners be sealed and waterproofed with the Kerdi Fix sealant to help prevent water from leaking into the wall and floor cavities. . It's not a matter of trusting the Kerdi. Answer (1 of 3): Schluter recommends applying Kerdi over drywall for walls, however, my local building code will not permit this practice - the local building code requires cement backer on the walls of a shower enclosure, therefore, I have done this successfully many times. Once the adhesive has been applied and has had time to properly cure, then the KERDI membrane can be applied to the wall. It looks like Kerdi membrane is ~$2/sqft ($200 for a 108sqft roll) and kerdi board is $3.7/sqft ($115 for a 4x8 sheet (Lowes)). rev2023.3.3.43278. Maybe try another brand of thinset? Cement board is a good, reliable backer board that works well on both floors and walls. Not everyone knows how to do mud and lathe it's so old school plus it wears you out, ive been a setter for 27 yrs and I have yet to go back to one of my showers I installed using perma base or durock, with a liner, i have started using waterproofing such as redguard or aqua-defense. I have watched it done 10-15 times, have good skills, and if I tried to make large mortar walls myself it might like a little kid threw up concrete Should I use Kerdi membrane or cement backerboard? Once you have selected the right sealer, follow the manufacturers instructions and apply a generous, even coat over the entire surface of the Hardie board. What is the proper substrate to use on tiled wall? Hardie board is thirsty, but that's way too fast. 4. Installation; As the GoBoard is very lightweight, it becomes easy to . Schluter-KERDI | Waterproofing (KERDI) | Schluter Another advantage is that the polyisocyanurate core of foam boards is waterproof. Using Kolmogorov complexity to measure difficulty of problems? They are available in thicknesses of 3/16, 3/8, 1/2, 3/4, 1, 1-1/2, and 2 (5, 9, 12.5, 19, 25, 38, and 50 mm). In normal residential use I wouldn't worry about it. Run a damp towel over the cement board surface to dust . Backerboard plus a waterproofing membrane like Redgard is all that is needed for tub surrounds with thinset then tile. Most of the entries in the NAME column of the output from lsof +D /tmp do not begin with /tmp. Tile can be installed directly over Kerdi-Board using the thinset method; For use with ceramic and natural stone tile; Return Policy; California residents. This creates a strong, waterproof tile backer that also functions as an uncoupling membrane. What type of thin-set mortar should I use when installing Schluter-KERDI? Good luck with your project. Kerdi Board vs. Cement Board: What Are The Major Differences? The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Not the answer you're looking for? A hundred times better to have too much before you comb than too little. How "tidy" does the kerdi band need to be? Send us an email: , What type of thin-set mortar should I use when installing Schluter, Using a Prefabricated Shower Tray and Ramp. KERDI features a modified polyethylene (PEVA) core with non-woven polypropylene on both sides to anchor the membrane in the thin-set mortar. Then you can apply a thin layer of KERDI-FIX to the board, the membrane over top, and use a rolling pin to press it down and ensure a secure bond. Sledge hammers for the floor, that might take a bit of time. To install Kerdi Membrane, start by applying Schulter ALL-SET mortar (or similar) to your cement board substrate using a 1/4" x 3/16" V-Notch Trowel. Site design / logo 2023 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA. WATCH HERE: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TRLd2HYhbU&list=PLO47JMsdYGrkxM_ZkOc3lMnsVhTqj80bB#justdoityourself #lovingit #p. Removing bathroom tile from cement backerboard, Transition from KERDI membrane backed, to not backed. Are there tables of wastage rates for different fruit and veg? Furthermore, if you're working in an older home KERDI-BOARD fits better than cement board in odd spaces. Kerdi really offers very little advantage over hardiboard plus membrane. Project Type: Tile / Category: Bathroom. you should still water proof with a liquid membrane product like RedGuard. Waterproof showers are the trend today, so RedGard is an excellent alternative to cement boards that act as vapor barriers. In order to determine which tile underlayment is right for your project, you need to know which issue youre trying to solve whether its preventing subfloor cracks from transferring to the tile, soundproofing, moisture protection, or providing more rigidity to the tile. For the floor I make a dry mix mud base and then the Kerdi membrane. Now there's nothing particularly wrong with fiber-cementit's just not my first choice. While cement board and grout are not waterproof, Kerdi is and can even be directly installed over drywall. builder, anti-builder, rebuilder -- Retired Moderator. As far as the tile/prep work, you are right that he is shifting the blame. A square foot of half-inch thick cement board weighs roughly 40 ounces, while the equivalent area of a Wedi board weighs about 75% less. If you are laying tile on floors that are wavy or out of level, self-leveling underlayment is a great solution. If you preorder a special airline meal (e.g. Cement board, Wedi board, Kerdi board, Hardibacker, Densshield, Durock, Permabase, or Wonder board . KERDI was developed as a waterproofing membrane to be used in . Drywall under Kerdi would have been a better choice. @DMoore- OK, I agree that with redguard it would be redundant. A good rule of thumb is 24 hours per inch of thickness, then one more day on top of that to be sure. Yes, it is possible to put Kerdi over regular drywall. I used 1/2 Hardibacker board over the studs and then used the Kerdi membrane over the Hardi.